Transcript:
Dave Bricker (00:02)
Want to expand your speaking and storytelling skills and grow your influence? This is Speakipedia Media brought to you by speakipedia.com. I’m your host, Dave Bricker, bringing you straight talk, smart strategies, and amazing stories from visionary speakers and thought leaders. My guest has been speaking for 25 years, and he’s been coaching speakers to discover, develop, and deliver their best message for 20 years.
and he’s been in sales and marketing for longer than that. We all face obstacles in life and business, the economy, personal conflicts, self-doubt, skills caps and more. Today’s guest message is all about how to win anyway. Please help me welcome Rich Hopkins.
Thanks, Dave. It’s great to be here. It’s bright, shiny day here
Rich Hopkins (00:51)
Thanks, Dave. It’s great to be here. It’s a bright, shiny day here in Denver.
Dave Bricker (00:55)
Denver. Thanks, Rich. It’s a hot.
Still day here in Miami, but it’s good to have you on board. So you fought quite a battle with a leg that was weakened from a birth defect and you ultimately elected to just have it amputated. Share that story and tell our listeners why it’s such a powerful metaphor for managing other kinds of adversity.
Well, my birth
Rich Hopkins (01:23)
Sure. Well, my birth
was never really identified in terms of being diagnosed. So they never figured out exactly what was wrong with me. And they tried surgeries on me to help me be able to walk as a kid, but they weren’t even sure if they were going to work all the time. So I had 10 surgeries before I was 10 years old. And thankfully I was walking.
Dave Bricker (01:26)
was never really identified in terms of being diagnosed. So they never figured out exactly what was wrong with me. And they tried surgeries on me to help me be able to walk as a kid, but they weren’t even sure if they were going to work all the time. I had 10 surgeries before I was 10 years old. Thankfully, I was walking. They kind of told me to stay off of it as much as I could if I wanted to keep it.
Rich Hopkins (01:50)
They kind of told me to stay off of it as much as I could if I wanted to keep it. And I didn’t really listen to them all that much. I kind of figured if I’m going to be in a wheelchair someday, I want to at least remember all the things I did when I wasn’t, you know, hitting a wind basketball shot, being able to hike up in the mountains. But eventually they were right. At 38 years old in 2006,
Dave Bricker (01:56)
and I didn’t really listen to them all that much. I kind of figured if I’m gonna need a wheelchair someday, I wanna at least remember all the things I did when I was hitting a wind basketball shot, being able to hike up in the mountains. But eventually they were right. At 38 years old in 2006, I woke up one day and I couldn’t put any weight on my ankle.
Rich Hopkins (02:20)
I woke up one day and I couldn’t put any weight on my ankle. Went a couple of weeks being stubborn, went to the doctor and they presented me with what was kind of an unthinkable situation. At least I’d never thought of it. I’d heard of wheelchair, sure, but not what they wanted me to do. I went another couple of weeks and then I figured, okay.
Dave Bricker (02:26)
Went a couple of weeks, being stubborn, went to the doctor, and they presented me with what was kind of a not-so-full situation. At least I’d never thought of it. I’d heard of wheelchair term, but not what they wanted me to do. I went another couple of weeks, and then I figured, okay, the doctor that I met with
Rich Hopkins (02:51)
The doctor that I met with was a below the knee amputee himself. And we talked about what his life was like, how his life had changed. And he said it was the best thing he ever did. So that was the approach I took because everything else I was going to do was at best a temporary fix for a year or two, or it was going to really
Dave Bricker (02:55)
was a below the knee athlete. And we talked about what his life was like, how his life had changed. And he said it was the best thing he ever did. So that was the approach I took because everything else I was going to do was ask a temporary fix for a year or two, or it was going to limit my mobility.
Rich Hopkins (03:20)
limit my mobility.
So in terms of making a decision to give up something I’d worked so hard to keep, we all find ourselves in those situations. Sometimes it’s relationship we don’t want to give up on. Sometimes it’s a business strategy or an entire wing of our business that we know is losing money, but it was our idea 20 years ago. But sometimes you have to let something go.
Dave Bricker (03:24)
So, in terms of making a decision, you give up something that worked so hard to keep. We all find ourselves in those situations. Sometimes it’s a relationship we don’t want to give up on. Sometimes it’s a business strategy or an entire ring of our business that we know is losing money. But it was our idea 20 years ago. But sometimes you have to let go.
Rich Hopkins (03:53)
to get something better. And that’s the decision that I made was to upgrade to what I call my super deluxe robot leg. It enabled me to continue walking, continue being a good father to my six kids, so I’m not just sitting around in a wheelchair when I don’t have to be. And it gave me a life back to a point.
Dave Bricker (03:54)
to get something better. And that’s the decision that I made was to upgrade to what I call my super deluxe robot legs. It enabled me to continue walking, continue being a good father to my sick kid, so I’m not just sitting around in a wheelchair when I don’t have to. And it did get my life back to a point.
Rich Hopkins (04:23)
In some ways, I wish I hadn’t waited as long as I had to make that decision.
Dave Bricker (04:23)
In some ways, I wish I hadn’t waited as long as I had to make that decision.
pretty amazing story. So let’s jump into one of your themes and we’ll come back because I know it’s all woven together. But the idea of winners and losers, that sounds a bit polarized. Are people one or the other? Can you be a winner in sports and a loser at math?
Rich Hopkins (04:31)
That’s pretty amazing.
Dave Bricker (04:50)
If you’re a compulsive gambler and you win big at the roullette table, are you still a winner? So dive deeper into what winner and loser mean in terms of the way you speak and teach about those concepts.
Well, winning and losing is polarizing because the world makes it polarizing. You you are either a winner or a loser in the eyes of the world. If you have a goal and you don’t reach it, you have failed.
Rich Hopkins (05:04)
Well, winning and losing is polarizing because the world makes it polarizing. You know, you, you are either a winner or a loser in the eyes of the world. If you have a goal and you don’t reach it, you have failed no matter what, because you haven’t gotten what you stated you wanted to go get. You know, we’re a sports driven world in some ways, and there’s only one winner every year. One, one team wins the Superbowl.
Dave Bricker (05:19)
no matter what, because you haven’t gotten what you stated you wanted to go get. You know, we’re a sports-driven world in some ways, and there’s only one winner every year. One team wins the Super Bowl. One team wins the championship of any. But life is not sport. And we lose all the time, and we win all the time.
Rich Hopkins (05:33)
One team wins the championship of anything, but life is not sports. And we lose all the time and we win all the time unless we listen to the world’s point of view. Winning anyway is about defining victory for yourself, not thinking in terms of losing, but instead learning.
Dave Bricker (05:47)
unless we listen to the world’s point of view. Winning anyway, defining victory for yourself. Not thinking in terms of losing, but instead learning. You know, okay, so I have a goal, I want to accomplish something, and I want to get it done by the end of October. So what happens if I don’t reach that goal in October? Am I a loser?
Rich Hopkins (06:00)
You know, okay, so I have a goal. want to accomplish something. And I want to get it done by the end of October. So what happens if I don’t reach that goal in October? Am I a loser? Or am I someone who just hasn’t won yet? Now, how can I find victories on the way to that ultimate victory? What have I learned along the way? What have I learned that doesn’t work? What have I learned that
Dave Bricker (06:15)
Or my son won’t be the president one yet. Now, how can I find victory on the way to that opening? What have I learned along the way? What have I learned that doesn’t work? What have I learned that does work as I try to approach that goal, even though I fail? And once I stop and reassess at that point, I can celebrate what I have done.
Rich Hopkins (06:30)
does work as I try to approach that goal, even though I failed. And once I stop and reassess at that point, I can celebrate what I have done, where I am at this moment. So the world won’t let you do that. World says you can’t celebrate until you’ve accomplished it, which leaves us feeling lousy about ourselves.
Dave Bricker (06:44)
where I am at this moment. So the world won’t let you do that. The world says you can’t celebrate until you’ve accomplished it, which leaves us feeling lousy about ourselves, slows our momentum, if not stopping it entirely, and we’re so much less likely to ever get to that goal in the future. But if you celebrate and then recalibrate what you’re doing, I’m going to change my approach.
Rich Hopkins (06:57)
slows our momentum, it’s not stopping it entirely. And we’re so much less likely to ever get to that goal in the future. But if you celebrate and then recalibrate what you’re doing, I’m going to change my approach or maybe I’m going to change the goal altogether because it doesn’t serve me anymore and then move forward again. That’s how you live a win anyway life.
Dave Bricker (07:13)
or maybe I’m gonna change it all together because it doesn’t serve me anymore and then move forward again. That’s how you live a win anyway life for yourself instead of worrying about whether the world thinks you’re winning or
Rich Hopkins (07:26)
for yourself instead of worrying about whether the world thinks you’re winning or not.
Dave Bricker (07:32)
So it really comes down to mindset, to self image. If we fail to meet a goal, that helps us define a new goal.
we need to see that failure as part of a larger win rather than, or the road to a larger win, rather than see ourselves as losers for not having succeeded.
Is that a fair way to, okay. Let’s see if you think in terms of failure. You know, there’s failure, but there’s also, it’s not reaching where you wanna go yet. If you think of yourself as a failure, you are,
Rich Hopkins (07:54)
Right, that’s if you think in terms of failure. There’s failure, but there’s also just not reaching where you want to go yet. If you think of yourself as a failure, you are creating a mindset that is not going to be helpful. But if you think of yourself as someone who’s making progress, you’re going to be more likely to keep making progress. It’s the terminology.
Dave Bricker (08:11)
creating a mindset that is not gonna be helpful. But if you think of yourself as someone who’s making progress, you’re be more likely to keep making progress. It’s the terminology that the world was thrown at us that failure is a big part of our vocabulary.
Rich Hopkins (08:24)
that the world was thrown at us, that failure is so big a part of our vocabulary.
Dave Bricker (08:31)
Yeah, it’s very interesting. And I think there’s a lot of people who just…
beat themselves up over that kind of thing. And I know in my life, I’ve had some ideas and inventions that I was very excited about it. I developed them. I brought them out into the world and either the world said, I don’t care Dave, not what I need. Or I just failed to convince the world that they needed an iPod because they weren’t asking for it, right? So somewhere in between.
But wow, have I learned so much along the way and all of those things are part of where I am now. Maybe winning is more of a journey than a destination.
you certainly win along the journey. And when you acknowledge that, the journey becomes a lot more fun.
Rich Hopkins (09:15)
But you certainly win along the journey. And when you acknowledge that, the journey becomes a lot more fun.
Dave Bricker (09:25)
completely agree. It’s really, think happiness is the same way people think. If I do this and this and this and this and this, then one day I’m going to be happy. It’s like, no, it is sort of state you attain. It’s all about, wow, I’m loving this journey. It’s got its ups and downs. Sometimes I get rained on, sometimes I get cold, but the view is fantastic. And I think much like winning, happiness is something that needs a lot of reframing. So Rich.
Leadership is a focus of your work. And how does leadership connect to this theme of winning and losing?
In terms of leadership, how you lead the people that are following you is crucial. And if you are leading them with that mindset of they’re either going to win or lose, they’re either succeeding or failing, then you’re leading a team that may be doomed to fail.
Rich Hopkins (10:02)
In terms of leadership, how you lead the people that are following you is crucial. And if you are leading them with that mindset of they’re either going to win or lose, they’re either succeeding or failing, then you’re leading a team that may be doomed to fail. You’re putting people in a poor position to succeed because they’re living a life that is based on
Dave Bricker (10:23)
putting people in a poor position to succeed because they’re living a life that is based on outer judgment instead of inner judgment. Now, yeah, we’re all going to have sales goals. We’re, you know, that’s what we do, there are certain outside metrics that we have to reach, but what are you doing to reach those? How are you leading your team?
Rich Hopkins (10:32)
Outer judgment instead of inner judgment. Now, yeah, we’re all going to have sales goals. We were, you know, if that’s what we do, there are certain outside metrics that we have to reach, but what are you doing to reach those? How are you leading your team to go after them? And how are you making them feel about themselves as they do it?
Dave Bricker (10:53)
to go after them and how are you making them feel about themselves as they do it. If you have a win-lose mentality, then they will as well. Your company will have a win-lose mentality and it’s not gonna serve you in the long run.
Rich Hopkins (11:00)
If you have a win-lose mentality, then they will as well. Your company will have a win-lose mentality and it’s not going to serve you in the long run.
Dave Bricker (11:16)
So give an example of the alternative to that. How can a leader be, steer people around that win-lose mentality?
Rich Hopkins (11:27)
Well, we’ve gotten a lot better at creating incentives. You know, you, okay, we’ll go, we’ll stick with sales. That’s where I’ve spent most of my life. You have a $50,000 sales goal, but then you’ve got maybe stair steps along the way and you can celebrate your victories on the way to 50,000. You don’t hit 50,000. Okay. Well, what did you hit? You hit 35.
Dave Bricker (11:28)
Well, we’ve gotten a lot better at creating incentives. You know, you, okay, we’ll go, we’ll stick with sales. That’s where I’ve spent most of my life. You have a $50,000 sales goal, but then you’ve got maybe stair steps along the way and you can celebrate your victories on the way to 50,000. You don’t hit 50,000? Okay. Well, what did you hit? You hit 35?
Rich Hopkins (11:55)
How does that compare to what you did last month? How is that going to change your approach? What did you not do? What did you do well on your way to 35,000? Now, sometimes you’re going to have employees that just aren’t good salespeople. And you can spend some time coaching them up and working with them to help them win anyway.
Dave Bricker (11:56)
How does that compare to what you did last month? How is that going to change your approach? What did you not do? What did you do well on your way to 35,000? Now, sometime you’re going to have employees that just aren’t good salespeople. And you can spend some time coaching the model and working with them to help them in any way.
Rich Hopkins (12:26)
Oftentimes that’ll work and they will suddenly start reaching their goal for future months. On the other hand, maybe winning anyway for them is getting the heck out of sales. And that’ll be a win for you too.
Dave Bricker (12:26)
Oftentimes that’ll work and they will suddenly start reaching their goal for future months on the other hand Maybe we anyway for them is getting the heck out of it And that’ll be a win for you
and of course that’s a whole other big topic because we’re all in sales whether we know it or not
yes measuring, you know what you did. Well instead of
just it’s not all about did you get the ball through the goal posts or not. How far down the field did you get? How many first downs did you get? Because otherwise, we’re just, it’s a zero or one, and that’s a hard standard for anybody. And a related topic, and I love this topic that you offer workshops on is evaluations, performance reviews, sales rankings, et cetera.
And so many organizations make their second tier performers feel like losers during this process. I remember when I was a university teacher and they would call us in for the annual performance review. And it was right out of Rick Lozano’s wonderful song, the performance review song, which you can look up on YouTube. He’s a wonderful speaker.
the HR person or the department chair says, between you and me, pretty much everyone got a three out of five, right? And they just kind of, it’s such a bogus review. It’s just demoralizing to work that hard and get jumbled in. Like everybody got a three. To get a five, you would have to do all sorts of things that are entirely outside of your job description. You’d have to make anyway. So what-
What are these evaluators, these managers, and ultimately the people responsible for corporate culture doing wrong?
Well, you really have to change your mindset from review to evaluation. Because we have job reviews. Well, how did you do last year? And they’ll throw out a bunch of statistics of goals you met and goals you didn’t, what you did do, and what they perceived you didn’t do.
Rich Hopkins (14:24)
Well, you really have to change your mindset from review to evaluation. Because we have job reviews. Well, how did you do last year? And they’ll throw out a bunch of statistics of goals you met and goals you didn’t, what you did do and what they perceive you didn’t do, as opposed to evaluating what you did do. So this is what you’ve done. This is the result you have.
Dave Bricker (14:45)
as opposed to evaluating what you did do. So this is what you’ve done. This is the result you have. Good for you on this. And then instead of necessarily saying stop doing this or being incredibly critical, replacing that with what if you tried this instead? What if we started moving in this direction?
Rich Hopkins (14:54)
good for you on this. And then instead of necessarily saying stop doing this or being incredibly critical, replacing that with what if you tried this instead? What if we started moving you in this direction? What if you added this to your routine? It’s a matter of yes and what if we tried?
Dave Bricker (15:13)
What if you added this in your routine? It’s a matter of yes and what if we try? Because if you spend the time being incredibly negative, you’re going to end up with a negative result.
Rich Hopkins (15:21)
Because if you spend the time being incredibly negative, you’re going to end up with a negative result.
Dave Bricker (15:30)
Yeah, and it’s really the common approach is an adversarial approach between the employee and the evaluator, right? Okay, you’re going to tell me everything I did wrong instead of that collaborative cooperative approach. Okay, you didn’t hit all your KPIs, but let’s look at why, let’s look at the ones you were strong in and let’s see what I can do to help you get to those higher levels.
That obviously is a much more enlightened leadership style if I’m reading you correctly.
Absolutely. And there’s a key in there that I didn’t bring up. And that is you really need to create a relationship so that you can evaluate and communicate that evaluation in terms that they’re comfortable with. For me, if somebody’s evaluating me, I don’t necessarily mean them to be as kind.
Rich Hopkins (16:05)
Absolutely. And there’s, there’s a key in there that I didn’t bring up and that is you really need to create a relationship so that you can evaluate and communicate that evaluation in terms that they’re comfortable with. You know, for me, if somebody is evaluating me, I don’t necessarily need them to be as kind as somebody else. I’ve been in the business for 35 years. If I stink,
Dave Bricker (16:28)
as somebody else. I’ve been in the business for 35 years. If I stink, tell me I stink and then tell me what I can do not to. But not everybody is in the position I’m in and you’ll only know that if you build that relationship so that you can qualify your evaluation style.
Rich Hopkins (16:34)
Tell me I stink and then tell me what I can do not to. But not everybody is in the position I’m in and you’ll only know that if you build that relationship so that you can qualify your evaluation style.
Dave Bricker (16:51)
You know, I have a friend who is
changing employers, he’s moving to a new job. And I suggested during the intake interview that he say, look, I understand that the reason you hire employees is to either make you or save you money. Let me know what it is that I can do to quantify my contribution to this company. Because what I’d like to do is be in a position to come in and ask you for a raise because
I’ve earned it and it’s a small fraction of the money I’ve generated for you or saved for you during the time that I’m here. And they should be grateful to give that raise on those, but asking for those specific, what do I have to do to get that five on my review? What are my KPIs? What are my benchmarks? Because I think so many people go into that employer thinking,
I’m so grateful that you hired me. I’m just going to say yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and do what I’m told. And that’s a great way to not rise up in the ranks of an organization.
Yeah, you’ve got to create expectations from both sides.
Rich Hopkins (18:04)
you’ve got to create expectations from both sides.
Dave Bricker (18:11)
So let’s talk about winning, losing and speaking. Now I would love to be asked this question, but today is your day. So Rich, what is it about public speaking that grows winners faster than any other force in the universe?
Rich Hopkins (18:30)
When you allow yourself to speak in public, you’re allowing yourself to share who you are and the value you offer with that audience and with every audience you ever appear in front of. And you can’t help but win when you are comfortable and vulnerable and honest with the people you’re speaking with. Now that’s not necessarily an easy place to get to.
Dave Bricker (18:31)
When you allow yourself to speak in public, you’re allowing yourself to share who you are and the value you offer with that audience and with every audience you ever appear in front of. And you can’t help but win when you are comfortable and vulnerable and on it with the people you’re speaking with. Now that’s not necessarily an easy place to get to.
Rich Hopkins (18:59)
It’s easier for some than others. But that’s what I’ve spent 25 years doing, learning to do, learning to do better, and helping other people develop those skills for themselves as well.
Dave Bricker (18:59)
It’s easier for some than others. But that’s what I’ve spent 25 years doing, learning to do, learning to do better, and helping other people develop those skills for themselves as well.
Yeah, I love that. And it’s fascinating because when we get up in front of an audience, we speak our piece, we share our thought models, we share our values.
And we kind of have to live up to that, right? We can’t talk about the value of integrity and go out and lie and cheat to people because it becomes too big a burden to bear because we are supporting that audience, trying to inspire that audience and trying to be authentic. So I think another way that people win through speaking is
just by finding themselves in a position where they have to walk the walk instead of just talk the talk. Wouldn’t you agree?
absolutely. You’re certainly setting yourself up for expectations that you better deliver.
Rich Hopkins (20:02)
absolutely. You’re certainly setting yourself up for expectations that you better deliver.
Dave Bricker (20:10)
So let’s back up a few steps. Rich, what was your journey into speaking? What called you to the platform?
Rich Hopkins (20:20)
you know, I’m a guy and what called me to pretty much anything was a gal. I didn’t do much public speaking. I got involved in acting in college because a pretty blonde wanted me to try out for a play with her. So I did. And she didn’t get cast, but I did. And in fact, I got the lead and okay. So shortest relationship ever.
Dave Bricker (20:20)
Well, you know, I’m a guy and what called me to pretty much anything was a gal. I didn’t do much public speaking. I got involved in acting in college because a pretty blonde wanted me to try out for a play with her. So I did. And she didn’t get cast, but I did. And in fact, I got the lead. And okay, so shortest relationship ever.
Rich Hopkins (20:49)
But I did drama for the next five and a half years I was in college earning my four year degree. Then I got involved in Toastmasters because another young lady invited me to her Toastmasters club. And I’ve ended up being in Toastmasters ever since. Honestly, the best thing I got out of that relationship, that didn’t last long. But Toastmasters has.
Dave Bricker (20:50)
But I did drama for the next five and a half years I was in college earning my four year degree. Then I got involved in Toastmasters because another young lady invited me to her Toastmasters club. And I’ve ended up being in Toastmasters ever since. Honestly, the best thing I got out of that relationship didn’t last long. But Toastmasters does.
Rich Hopkins (21:17)
And I really found that I love to get up and speak. And it didn’t take me long in Toastmasters to realize that just because I love to speak didn’t mean that I was saying anything. And I was very lucky to have a mentor tell me just that, that I could be a great speaker if I would ever learn to say something. And I have spent all my time.
Dave Bricker (21:18)
And I really found that I love to get a and it didn’t take me long until I realized that just because I love to pay didn’t mean that I was paying anything. And I was very lucky to have a mentor tell me just that, that I could be a great speaker if I would ever learn to say something. And I have spent all my time.
Rich Hopkins (21:47)
trying to make sure that I’m always saying something and not wasting the time of my audience, even if they’re, you know, a bunch of Toastmasters that are there specifically to support me. I still need to honor that time. And so I love being able to speak. I love being able to hear others speak and give them feedback, able to mentor them through the process as they go along.
Dave Bricker (21:47)
trying to make sure that I’m always saying something and not wasting the time of my audience, even if there’s a bunch of managers that are specifically to support me. I still need to honor that time. And so I love being able to speak. I love being able to hear others speak and give them feedback, implement for them as they go along.
So if you’re just joining us, you’re tuned into Speakipedia Media for aspiring and professional speakers and thought leaders who want to change hearts, minds and fortunes. My guest today is Speaker and marketing strategist, Rich Hopkins. So I am also a long time toast master and I’ve spoken quite a bit on this podcast about
the merits of that. think to myself, I must have seen in my years in Toastmasters, 1500 short speeches and you can’t get that education anywhere else. And you have also spoken about having a drama background, which I have very little of, but I have some of, and that’s really a tremendous advantage for speaking.
And then you talk about this very important topic of when you speak, have something to say and especially something to say that serves the audience. And I’m thinking about your own story because you focus on winning, which is a great topic. We all love to win. But there’s a big pothole in the road of your journey that you manage to steer around. And that’s the dreaded poor me story.
And so many aspiring speakers deal with an injury, cancer, divorce, disability, and they rush to the stage to talk about adversity. So how can we reframe our adversity stories so that they can really serve our audience?
Well, exactly. I’ve not had an adversity story. You made me tell it at the beginning of my podcast. But I don’t frame it as an adversity story. I frame it as…
Rich Hopkins (23:51)
Well, exactly. I’ve got an adversity story. You made me tell it at the beginning of the podcast, but I don’t frame it as an adversity story. I frame it as a victory, which is right in line with winning anyway, in general. It doesn’t matter how bad your situation is. If you’re here now, you have gotten through it to a point or are in the middle of getting through it.
Dave Bricker (24:03)
a victory, which is right in line with many anyway in general. It doesn’t matter how bad your situation is. If you’re here now, you have gotten through it to a point or are in the middle of getting through it. What can you do to move forward from there? If you’re a speaker and you’ve got some tremendous adversity that you have faced,
Rich Hopkins (24:21)
can you do to move forward from there? If you’re a speaker and you’ve got some tremendous adversity that you have faced, you can get a ton of empathy from your audience, but they won’t get a message from you. And they’ll hear you once, and then you’re kind of like eating cotton candy. Great, I enjoyed it.
Dave Bricker (24:33)
you can get a ton of empathy from your audience, but they won’t get a message from you. And they’ll hear you once, and then you’re kind of like eating cotton candy. Great, I enjoyed it, fun dramatic story, and that’s it. But if you could take your story and put your audience in a similar situation,
Rich Hopkins (24:50)
fun dramatic story and that’s it. But if you could take your story and put your audience in a similar situation, not necessarily physically, but mentally, then they can decide for themselves how they would feel, what they would think in a similar situation or the better word is
Dave Bricker (25:03)
not necessarily physically, but mentally, then they can decide for themselves how they would feel, what they would think in a similar situation, or the better word is parallel. Because when I talk about my leg, giving up something I worked so hard to do, not everybody, in fact, a very small percentage, can identify with.
Rich Hopkins (25:19)
parallel because when I talk about my leg, giving up something I worked so hard to keep, not everybody in fact, very small percentage can identify with that, but they can identify with having to let go of something that they’ve tried hard to keep, which I mentioned in my keynote, be they relationships, employees, business plans, you know, their favorite
Dave Bricker (25:32)
but they can identify with having to let go of something that they’ve tried hard to keep, which I mentioned in making the art, be they relationships, employees, business plans, you know, their favorite car that they’ve for 40 years. How can they give something up and not feel like they’re losing, but instead find the victor in it?
Rich Hopkins (25:49)
are that they’ve kept for 40 years, how can they give something up and not feel like they’re losing, but instead find the victory in it moving forward?
Dave Bricker (26:02)
moving
Absolutely. Well said. I always counsel people, never tell a story until you’ve stopped bleeding. Don’t use the stage as a place to do your therapy and work out your trauma. And Rich, you also coach speakers and
What are some of the most common problems you encounter with speakers and how do you approach these problems as a coach?
Rich Hopkins (26:34)
The biggest problem I come across is that everybody has a story they want to tell. They know they want to say it, but they don’t necessarily have any clue why we need to hear it.
Dave Bricker (26:34)
The biggest problem I have come across is that everybody has a story they want to tell. They know they want to say it, but they don’t necessarily have any clue why we need to hear it.
Rich Hopkins (26:51)
So my job is to help them really dig into what that story is and how it can change their audience, how they can use that story and other stories in their life to build up to an overall theme that gives the audience something to hang on to and something to use after they’ve listened to you.
Dave Bricker (26:51)
So my job is to help them really dig into what that story is and how it can change their audience, how they can use that story and other stories in their life to build up to an overall theme that gives the audience something to hang on to and something to use after they’ve listened to
So there’s also this idea, people see us on the platform and they think, wow, you’re an experienced speaker, you’re there. And of course we all keep growing our craft. Yo-Yo Ma continues to practice the cello. It’s not like, I’m here now, I don’t have to practice anymore, right? We continue to grow and you mentioned Toastmasters and of course I do the same thing every week. I’m at my Toastmasters chapter.
and working on new things, challenging myself and trying to get that audience perspective. Those evaluations are very important, sometimes more important than the ones I get from my professional speaker friends because they’re not the ones in the real audience. So what else do do to continue to grow as a presenter?
Rich Hopkins (28:06)
of the things I do is I go on podcasts like this. Nothing like impromptu speaking and trying to make sure that you can sound halfway intelligent when talking about yourself. But I’m still in Toastmasters. I’m a member of two clubs and I probably give five to six speeches a month, either in my clubs or visiting other clubs virtually. Yesterday night I was on a panel.
Dave Bricker (28:06)
One of things I do is I go on podcasts like this. Nothing like impromptu speaking and trying to make sure that you can sound halfway intelligent when talking about yourself. But I’m still in Toastmasters. I’m a member of two clubs and I probably give five to six speeches a month either in my clubs or visiting other clubs virtually. Yesterday night I was on a panel.
Rich Hopkins (28:36)
In a couple of weeks, I’m going to be doing a one-on-one interview with a group in District 71, I think is Australia, somewhere down there.
Dave Bricker (28:36)
In a couple of weeks, I’m going to be doing a one-on-one interview with a group in District 71, I think it’s Australia, somewhere down there.
Rich Hopkins (28:48)
Just continuing to be in the environment, whether you’re speaking or hearing other speakers, helps you sharpen that saw because you’re either developing it for yourself or you’re hearing it for somebody else and thinking, hmm, I liked what they did or what if they tried this and how can I possibly apply that to what I’m doing?
Dave Bricker (28:49)
Just continuing to be in the environment, whether you’re speaking or hearing other speakers, helps you sharpen that song. Because you’re either developing it for yourself or you’re hearing for somebody else and thinking, hmm, I liked what they did or what if they tried this and how can I possibly apply that to what I’m doing?
Yes. And my friend Bruce Turkell, who’s a Hall of Fame speaker in NSA, his saying is, if you want to speak more, speak more. And that certainly applies to the business side of things. Get out, speak more, people will see you. You’ll have more opportunities to get paid. Take those freebie gigs, speak at those Rotary clubs, whatever. But then the other side of it is speak at
Speak at those Toastmasters meetings, things like that. Speak every chance you get to stand up, stand up at a networking event and give an announcement. Speak, speak, speak. That’s how you get better. It’s the same way you get to Carnegie Hall, right? Practice, practice, practice.
Well, for those that aren’t in Toastmasters, when you get in the Toastmasters, get involved in the contest because it gives you a chance to speak.
Rich Hopkins (30:01)
Well, for those that aren’t in Toastmasters, when you get in the Toastmasters, get involved in the contest because it gives you a chance to speak with more at stake. And if you win, you go to a higher level and every higher level you go to has bigger and different audiences. And you get to repeat the same material if you choose, which gives you an opportunity to work on material.
Dave Bricker (30:12)
with more at stake. And if you win, you go to a higher level and every higher level you go to has bigger and different audiences. And you get to repeat the same material if you choose, which gives you an opportunity to work on material. And what better environment to do that in than one that is objectively supportive with not a whole lot at stake.
Rich Hopkins (30:30)
And what better environment you’ll be able do that in than one that is objectively supportive with not a whole lot at stake. I’ve been doing that. One of the main reasons I’ve stayed in Toastmasters is just to compete every year and, you know, chase that world championship trophy.
Dave Bricker (30:41)
I’ve been doing that one of the main reasons of aid in toast managers is just to compete every year and, you know, chase that world championship trophy. Yeah.
And at the same time, I think it’s really important because I’ve done a lot of Toastmasters, con contests, and I’ve found that when you get onto those higher levels, sometimes you don’t know.
who the judges are. We definitely don’t know who they are, but you don’t know what they’re smoking or what they like. And I mean, I remember I got to the top of the comedy contest, the humorous speech contest. And then at the end, I didn’t place and two of the people who won were doing bathroom humor, which shouldn’t have even been accepted. So but you know what? I felt that I wrote something clever and did a good performance. So
Above all, compete with yourself because we get back into this winners and losers conversation where if some random judge who can’t tell a good speech from the phone book happens to not place you in the contest, that doesn’t mean you did a lousy job. It means they did a lousy job. And that’s OK. As long as you give it your best, the audience isn’t always going to appreciate your best efforts. And that’s OK.
Rich Hopkins (32:07)
I totally get that Dave. I’ve competed in over 150 contests. I have won some I shouldn’t have. I have lost some I shouldn’t have. And ultimately I’ve won them all because I learned something either about my speech, about how I’m approaching it, or in the early years when I wasn’t so much a win anyway guy, I learned something about myself.
Dave Bricker (32:08)
I totally get that Dave. I’ve competed in over 150 contests. I have won some I shouldn’t have. I have lost some I shouldn’t have. ultimately I’ve won them all because I learned something either about my speech, about how I’m approaching it, or in the early years when I wasn’t so much a win anyway guy, I learned something about myself.
Yeah, it’s just great getting in front of an audience and receiving evaluation. Even if you disagree with the evaluation, it’s something you can bounce off of. It’s a very important experience and it’s not one that you can find anywhere else.
The word of the day is discernment.
Rich Hopkins (33:03)
Yes, the word of the day is discernment.
Dave Bricker (33:10)
So aside from Toastmasters, some of our listeners are new to the speaking game and what advice can you offer? What shortcuts can they take? when does it make more sense to take that long scenic route?
Rich Hopkins (33:31)
the purpose of you going out and speaking? That’s the number one question you have to ask yourself. Are you just wanting to go out and share your story and inspire people? Are you wanting to represent a business you’re running? Those are typically the top two reasons we go out and speak. Others are you want to be a better public speaker because you want to speak well at work, in meetings.
Dave Bricker (33:31)
What’s the purpose of you going out and speaking? That’s the number one question you have to ask yourself. Are you just wanting to go out and share your story and inspire people? Are you wanting to represent a business you’re running? Those are typically the top two reasons we go out and speak. Others are you want to be a better public speaker because you want to speak well at work, your meetings.
Rich Hopkins (33:59)
be able to talk to your boss and ask for that raise.
Dave Bricker (33:59)
be able to talk to your boss and ask for that raise.
If you don’t need to be great immediately, join Toast Manager because you’ll be able to take that long winding road. If you need to be great in a month because your boss gave you a PowerPoint deck and said, you go into this convention and you’re representing us,
Rich Hopkins (34:07)
If you don’t need to be great immediately, join Toastmasters because you’ll be able to take that long winding road. If you need to be great in a month because your boss gave you a PowerPoint deck and said, you’re going to this convention and you’re representing us, get a coach. And I would recommend getting a coach regardless.
Dave Bricker (34:28)
Get a coach. Yes. And I would recommend getting a coach regardless.
And then finding a way to get out and speak to the low hanging fruit opportunities out there. The thousands of meetings that happen every single day, morning, noon and night, Rotary, Lion, etc. And it’s a whole different podcast. You get a free chicken dinner or free eggs and bacon in the morning.
Rich Hopkins (34:36)
And then finding a way to get out and speak to the low-hanging fruit opportunities out there, the thousands of meetings that happen every single day, morning, noon and night, Rotary, Lion, etc. And it’s a whole different podcast. You get a free chicken dinner or free eggs and bacon in the morning, and you get a chance to speak for 20 minutes. And that helps you improve. Now you combine getting out there.
Dave Bricker (34:58)
and you get a chance to speak for 20 minutes. And that helps you improve. Now you can bond in, getting out there, getting coached, and toast-matching. That’s probably your absolute fastest track to success before taking the next big jump to
Rich Hopkins (35:06)
getting a coach and Toastmasters; that’s probably your absolute fastest track to success before taking the next big jump to NSA.
Dave Bricker (35:19)
So thanks for that advice. And now,
Tell us a little bit about the various programs you offer. And I love how they’re named WinAnyway, LeadAnyway, SpeakAnyway, and EvaluateAnyway. So you’ve got a keynote, you’ve got some breakout sessions. What is that constellation of Rich Hopkins offerings?
Well, the WinAnyway keynote is my flagship keynote. I talk about my own situation. I talk about some third party folks that
Rich Hopkins (35:42)
the win anyway keynote is my flagship keynote. I talk about my own situation. I talk about some third party folks that have had some experiences where the world has told them they just aren’t living up to what they said they would live up to. Or they’re facing situations they can’t control. And yet they have found a way to win anyway. You know, some of these people are people I’ve known for
Dave Bricker (35:53)
have had some experiences where the world told them they just aren’t moving up to what they said they would live up to, or their face situations they can’t control. And yet they have found a way to win anyway. You know, some of these people are people I’ve known for 40 years. Others are my kids who, you we learned so much from our kids. And I take that and I…
Rich Hopkins (36:11)
40 years, others are my kids who, you know, we learned so much from our kids. And I take that and I turn those stories into something that I apply to whatever business I happen to be working with at the time from stage. You can see a version of that in my TEDx. When you start talking about speaking anyway, that’s more of a training session.
Dave Bricker (36:22)
turn those stories into something that I apply to whatever business I happen to be working with at the time and stage. You can see a version of that in my TEDx. When you start talking about speaking anyway, that’s more of a training session to help companies improve their employees’ speaking skills, overall presentation skills. Evaluate anyway is
Rich Hopkins (36:40)
to help companies improve their employees’ speaking skills, overall presentation skills. Evaluate Anyway is often for Toastmasters groups to help them become better evaluators. But as we talked about today, we need to be better evaluators in the corporate world. And I have a version of Evaluate Anyway for the corporate world as well.
Dave Bricker (36:51)
often for Toastmasters group to help them become better evaluators. But as we talked about today, we need to be better evaluators in the corporate world. And I have a version of Evaluate Anyway for the corporate world as well. And leading anyway, I mean, let’s face it, it’s about winning anyway from a higher level and leading other people to live their win anyway life.
Rich Hopkins (37:09)
And leading anyway, I mean, let’s face it, it’s about winning anyway from a higher level and leading other people to live their win anyway life, both for themselves and for you and your company that you are a leader within.
Dave Bricker (37:21)
and for you and your company that you are a leader within.
So thanks for sharing this. Thanks for sharing those programs and I hope I can catch up with you at an event and hear your presentations. So where can our listeners discover more about you?
can go to rich anyway, or not rich anyway, richhopkins.com.
Rich Hopkins (37:44)
Well, they can go to rich anyway, or not rich anyway, richhopkins.com or they can go to speakanddeliver.com or they can just Google Rich Hopkins speaker and everywhere I am will pretty much come up.
Dave Bricker (37:51)
or they can go to speakingdeliver.com or they can just Google Rich Hopkins picture and everywhere I am will pretty much come
Well, that’s certainly easy enough. Rich Hopkins, thank you so much for being my guest today.
I’m Dave Bricker, inviting you to explore the world’s most comprehensive resource for speakers and storytellers at speakipedia.com. If you’re watching this on social media video, please love, subscribe, share your comments. And if you’re listening to the podcast, keep your hands on the wheel, stay safe, and I’ll see you on the next episode of Speakipedia Media.
