Dave Bricker:

Want to expand your speaking and storytelling skills and grow your influence business? This is Speakipedia Media brought to you by speakipedia .com. I’m your host, Dave Bricker, bringing you straight talk, strategies, and amazing stories from visionary speakers and thought leaders. Most great stories involve a catalyst event, some chance encounter or unexpected turn of events that inspires a journey.

 

And that’s certainly the case with today’s guest. In 1968, she was 21 years old and living in London. She received a call to type some lyrics, went to a hotel room to meet her client, and that client turned out to be none other than the American entertainer and composer Frank Zappa. She eventually moved to California to become Frank Zappa’s personal secretary.

 

She lived there with Frank and the Mothers of Invention from 1967 to 1971, and in 2011, she published her memoir entitled Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa. Please welcome author and storyteller Pauline Butcher -Bird.

 

Likewise, Pauline. So Pauline, in your book, you give the impression that you were a somewhat straight -laced young woman, and you found yourself in a hotel room with a long -haired anti -establishment rock musician. What was your initial reaction to that? What was my reaction? Well, it was normal for me. We worked in bedrooms in hotels.

 

Pauline Butcher-Bird:

That was the normal thing because there wasn’t the internet. So businessmen who traveled the world had to employ secretaries to do their reports to send back on their travels. And this time he had a suite so we could have been in the sitting room. But that was filled with all these long haired Rock and Roll types. They were all sitting around. None of them had any interest in me.

 

He introduced me to them and said, this is Pauline Butcher. There’s a hello, hello …bored And Frank took me into the bedroom, which is normal. That wasn’t unusual. And he had a tape recorder on a U .S. tape recorder on the on the desk. I put my typewriter down because I carried a little typewriter and notebooks and everything.

 

And he asked me to take down the lyrics of “Absolutely Free.” And I could not understand half of them. mean, Duke of Prunes, Call Any Vegetable. And the Beatles were writing songs like “Love Me Do,” something simple.

 

And here he was writing all this stuff about vegetables. So I found it very odd. And when he came to one of the songs, “Brown Shoes Don’t Make It,” I told him afterwards when he was reading it through that I thought it was immoral because it’s about a 13 year old girl making love to a middle aged man on the White House lawn. And I said to him, I think that’s immoral.

 

And unlike most businessmen who wouldn’t have looked twice at me and taken any notice of me, he was interested in the subject. And we had a half an hour debate about the lyrics and, you know, the morality of lyrics. And I think that was a breakthrough for me because when I went to see him in New York,

 

I just got in touch with him in New York, not knowing he was married. And that’s when he offered me this job. It was just fortuitous. I think it was the fact that I argued with him that was my breakthrough. So Frank Zappa’s music, yeah, always had an air of controversy about it.

 

Dave Bricker:

It sounds like Frank respected you for speaking up and sharing your opinion and having an intelligent conversation about it rather than just objecting out of hand or writing him off altogether as so many people did who didn’t understand him and his music.

 

Pauline Butcher-Bird:

Yes, absolutely. And that was for me, that was the hook. To have a man listen to what I had to say in 1967. He offered me this job, so I went back to Washington and waited while he found out a way for to employ me because I didn’t have a card, a work card. And so he employed me as a songwriter and they were going to employ me for the year to write the

 

And then at the end of the year, they would write the song off as a flop, a loss, making money. And that’s how they did it. So I was employed as a songwriter. And I wasn’t on the books. I was paid $70 a week cash with my food and board because I lived in the house with them and eight other people.

 

and Frank and Gail and his baby. So there were 11 of us living in the house. I had not expected any of this. But why did he invite me? think he probably fancied me. I was quite attractive. I was tall and slim. I had the look and I had the gall to argue with him. And so I think he maybe at the back of his mind might have thought

 

if he brought me over, that there might be a chance. But when I got to the log cabin where we lived, he did not make any advances to me. In fact, he treated me with great affection, in fact.

 

Dave Bricker:

So, and again, this is classic storytelling. You jump on a plane, you end up living in the famous log cabin in Laurel Canyon, working for Frank Zappa. And so one day you’re minding your own business.

 

You’re typing lyrics in London. Boom, your whole world changes. So you had certain expectations. Wow, I’m going to go live with a rock star in California. What did you actually encounter when you arrived?

 

Pauline Butcher-Bird:

Well, I discovered a broken down, awful, awful house. wasn’t a house, it was a cabin, log, but huge. It was massive. And of course, I think Frank wanted it because he was coming back to California as a new rock star. He wasn’t when he left California. When he came back, he took this big house in Laurel Canyon, and all the other rock stars were living in little places. So he was sort of like the king of Laurel Canyon. But he didn’t actually like it, really, after a week of them visiting.

 

He did not enjoy their visit. And from there on, they stopped coming because he was not he did not socialize with Rockstar. In my room, there were holes in the in the walls, this big three holes, and there wewasre no hot water. The bathroom was it had its own bathroom. It was unsweetened. It was quite originally a posthouse.

 

but it had been vandalized because it had been used by hundreds of freaks before we came, and they all got shipped out when Frank took over. My room was vandalized, but I did it myself. I put it back into a really nice room. It was big. It was about 20 -foot long and about 10 -foot wide. It was a big room, windows on two sides.

 

And when I finished, Frank used it for his business meetings because it was in the end the best room in the house. But the rest of it, they just lived with it the way it was. It was a real shambles. But then we only stayed there five months and they eventually moved out to another place. So I painted it to be a Hollywood home with white carpets and white and a pool outside and lounges and something beautiful. And it wasn’t that at all. We had a pond in the front garden. That was it.

 

And that’s where the gun was put. One day a man came in with a gun and pointed it at Frank. And he unbelievably told this guy, gun down, and the guy said,

 

I just got the gun and Frank said, well, if you don’t get rid of it, the police will come and you’ll be arrested and go to jail. And he said, I don’t want to go to jail. And so Frank said, well, I’ll tell you where to hide it. And we all thought there were about five of us in the sitting room when this happened. And Frank marched out with this guy to the pond and we all stood around it. I mean, this was the man with the gun.

 

And after he dropped the gun, because Frank told him to drop it into the pond, and he did, afterwards Frank showed him out the gate and closed the gate, which is never normally shut. In the kitchen, I said to Frank, are you going to call the police? And he said, no, I’m not going to call the police because he doesn’t deserve to go to jail.

 

Dave Bricker:

That ties into this whole part of the story, the Zappa home was this weird way station where all sorts of people would wander in. And I’m sure that was fascinating just from a people watching standpoint. Some were just local people and others were actual rock stars, members of the Rolling Stones and in your book.

 

Yeah, Mick Jagger came several times. Joney Mitchell came with David Crosby. Captain Beefheart, he… came frequently, but he was a friend of Frank’s. But gradually they stopped coming because Frank did not entertain them. Mick Jagger did sit in the kitchen with Marianne Faithful and they discussed politics one night and another night there was a jam session and I missed that because I went out to dinner with someone else. I missed that of all things to miss.

 

Yeah, so people did come, but they stopped coming after a while.

 

Dave Bricker:

Well, it’s interesting because most people would have been starstruck. And it sounds like Frank Zappa didn’t confer any higher status on celebrities than he did on the average walk -in. And I get the impression he was off at his desk focused on a sheet of music, and that wasn’t going to change just because someone famous walked unannounced.

 

Pauline Butcher-Bird:

He had an extraordinary ego. mean, I did ask him once what was it about his parents that made him the way he was? And he said, not very much, because if I carried on the way my parents wanted me to, I wouldn’t have had a very good time because they were highly religious. So he said, I just ignored them.

 

And he had this incredible ego. The way he went on TV before he was a rock musician and played bicycle and made a musical instrument out of a bicycle wheel.

 

Dave Bricker:

I found it interesting in your book because your attitude is not all that different from Frank Zappa’s in which, look, I don’t care if somebody is a member of a famous rock band. I judge them on what kind of person they are. Are they interesting to talk to? Are they full of themselves? Do I want to hang out with them? So you weren’t starstruck at all, even though some of the people walking in who were major celebrities, you talk about Jeff Beck and folks like that…

 

Pauline Butcher-Bird:

Rod Stewart, when they came, they had a food fight in the kitchen with two of the girls that Frank had employed, you know, turned into a rock group. And he walked through with his nose in the air. We came back from the studio. We were there one night. And I had to tell Rod Stewart and Jeff Beck, you know, to clear it up and be the sort of tyrant, as it were.

 

But the next time they came, they were not drunk and they were quite gentlemanly actually. And they were quite nice. But again, every time they came, Frank really found them uninteresting to talk to. He spoke more with film people. When film people came, he made film and wrote music for films. He liked that. And animators, he liked those.

 

So film people were more interesting to him.

 

Dave Bricker:

So there you were, open -minded, but conservative, and you’re surrounded by the zeitgeist of the 60s. Free love, lots of drugs, of course, with the exception of Frank Zappa, who wanted nothing to do with chemical recreation. The freak scene, rock and roll, the Vietnam War, flower power, and you managed to live and even thrive in this chaos.

 

but you kept to your values and stayed true to yourself without judging or condescending to anyone. Most people would have been caught up in the current. And talk about this because you don’t make a big deal about this in your book. You almost take this strength of character for granted. You let it speak for itself. But I think this is inspiration that a lot of people need because the currents are different, but people, especially young people, still get caught up in them today.

 

Pauline Butcher-Bird:

I saved myself actually by writing it all down in my letters home because I wanted them to know what was, what this was like, this scene. It was just so extraordinary. I did stay sane because also Ian Underwood, who was one of the Mothers, became my friend and he was in love with Ruth Underwood who played in the band later. And so there was no possibility of us being boyfriend girlfriend. And so we became platonic friends and he and I hung out together and he was my saving grace really.

 

Dave Bricker: You’re tuned into Speakipedia Media for aspiring and professional speakers and thought leaders who want to make more money by changing hearts, minds and fortunes

 

My guest today is Pauline Butcher -Bird, who was Frank Zappa’s personal secretary from 1968 to 1971. Her book, Freak Out, My Life with Frank Zappa, documents those people and times.

 

Now, Pauline, Frank Zappa had and continues to have a significant cult following, but so many people are unaware of his musical brilliance, his contributions to contemporary music, and

his contributions to music engineering. For our listeners who aren’t familiar with Frank Zappa, explain a bit about who he was as a musician and because his music can be an acquired taste, tell us what to listen to first and how to listen to it.

 

Pauline Butcher-Bird:

I think if you wanted to start with something of Frank’s, I think his most beautiful piece of music is something called… “Watermelon in Easter Hay.” It’s an instrumental. It’s very much on the line of Bolero.

 

It might even have been inspired by that, I’m not sure. But anyway, it’s a beautiful piece of music. And that gives an idea of where he got to towards the end of his very short life, because he died when he was 52. So I think that’s one thing. And then if you’re a bit of a rebel and you’re a bit of an outsider, then I think you should start with Freak Out because that is where he started and what got him his, you know, following at the beginning.

 

And then if you want some of the saucy songs, which I don’t like, then go to Apostrophe, a later album, or I do recommend Apostrophe and Joe’s Garage as two albums to look (at) and I think you would find some fascinating stuff in there.

 

But the other thing is to look at YouTube and the videos on there. There’s so many videos of his live performances. And he is quite stunning on stage. When he sang Montana, which is about making dental floss, it’s quite stunning and nobody else wrote songs like that. He was so original. So, yeah. And I think for me, his great talent was to combine so many aspects of music.

 

So you have to get into his music, but I think that’s a good way to start what I’ve suggested.

 

Dave Bricker:

And I agree. And you mentioned that song, Montana, and that’s a perfect example because you could listen to Montana for its absolutely wonderful, silly lyrics, but the instrumental and musical stuff going on inside that song, the interludes and things, it’s quite difficult stuff to play, and to get quality musicians to perform that in sync as a band. That’s a great entry point for a lot of people.

 

So I like your suggestion very much. I started back when I was in high school, somebody turned me onto the Freak Out album and I thought, what is this? This is completely unlike anything I’ve ever heard. And that began my journey. I came in, late 70s listening to music that wasn’t that old at the time, but had been recorded maybe 10 years before I began listening to it. But album by album, I kind of went through and the Zappa estate continues to release recordings.

 

Yeah, but once you begin listening and really understand the layers of what’s going on, that even some of the stuff that you might you called immoral or whatever, I think…

 

It’s just, well, this ties right into my next question because Frank liked to describe himself as a journalist of sorts. He loved to observe all of these outrageous acts of human behavior and create lyrics that reported on these absurdities. And he made these observations apparently without judgment, almost like he was an anthropologist from another planet. And he never seemed to care what anyone else thought of him for doing that or whether someone might be offended.

 

In fact, I think I sense that with some of the lyrics, he found like, well, let’s do something because if we upset people, if we create some controversy, people are going to respond to it. And whether they respond to it positively or negatively, they’re responding to it and that’s the entertainment business. And if I can get people responding to this entertainment, then I can get money to finance my next recording project, which is really what I care about, which is making music.

 

So talk about that and Frank’s uniquely independent spirit.

 

Pauline Butcher-Bird:

Now, some of these songs have lyrics on them, which I really wonder how could you sing those on stage and call it entertainment. Now he would say, well, these things occur in the real world. And so I made a song about them. But on the other hand, in one of his interviews, he said that when he wrote a song, he always visualized the lyrics. It’s a little puzzling for me how he wrote those songs, some of those outrageous songs.

 

But he also wrote some very witty songs and he wrote a lot of critical songs about everybody, really, men, women, you know, Jewish people, Jewish princesses. And when one of the people on the interview asked him, you know, why did you write that song? He said, well, you know, he was absolutely defensive about it. If you don’t like it, well, you can go.

 

Yeah, he was very, very defensive about writing a song like that. Well, a lot of people don’t know what Jewish princesses, you know, is. I think you need to be Jewish to know what that is. But I had to learn what it was myself from someone who was Jewish. So and he said he didn’t find it offensive. So, but a lot of people do find that. And “Catholic Girls,” that’s another one. There’s quite a few offensive songs, so I find that troubling.

 

But then I knew the man, and I knew that he was also very kind, very gentle. He was very quietly spoken. He never raised his voice. He never got angry. I just thought he was wonderful.

 

And I have spoken to other women who worked for him in the same sort of way as I did, although slightly different. And they also said the same thing, that they really loved him, the kind of person he was, to know him intimately, to work closely with him.

 

Dave Bricker:

And I always sensed listening to some of these songs, there was no malice in any of them. If there was anything Frank Zappa hated, I think it was a stereotype, but I don’t think he hated any particular group of people. I think he enjoyed reporting on the absurdity. That was just the vibe I always got, was that it wasn’t like, I’m going to go and inspire people to hate this particular group that I’m making fun of today. And I think that spirit of making fun of is an important way to listen to that music.

 

So let’s talk about you and your book, because as someone connected to an enigmatic celebrity, you’d be crazy not to publish a book about it. And yet you chose to write a memoir, not a biography. And though I’m sure people, including myself, bought the book because they were Zappaphiles, they discovered this engaging story about a brave young woman in a strange new world. And you managed to tell your story, stay in the story, and still satisfy readers’ curiosity about Frank Zappa during the early years. I think that’s an admirable feat of writing.

 

Pauline Butcher-Bird:

I’m pleased to know when fans write to me and tell me that they think it’s one of the best books about Frank Zappa because it’s the only one that gives his home life from getting up in the morning and going to bed and what happened during the day. Because, you know, I was living there.

 

And so I wrote it all down and my mother kept all my diaries and letters in a shoebox. So 40 years later, I got them out and that’s how it was possible for me to get all the detail because I would not have remembered a lot of the detail that I have in the, and that’s what makes it a little bit different, I think … you know, what people were wearing and how they reacted and the arguments and the falling out and, you know, it’s all there. It’s amazing what comes back to you.

 

Dave Bricker:

And this is the reason that I call memoir the extreme sport for writers. So how did you organize all of these letters and stories into cohesive book? What did you discuss with your editor when you put this together or was it a solo effort? It’s really well done.

 

Pauline Butcher-Bird:

Right. It took me nine months to write, type up all my letters and insert the diary entries in the appropriate places. That took nine months. And then I published it more or less in chronological order like that the first time. And then this recent edition, which is out, read, read, adjusted it all.

 

And I think it’s a much better book because I brought all the stuff about Gail. We haven’t mentioned Gail and she was a very, very important person in Frank’s life. And she survived the marriage through terrible times really, but she had four wonderful children. so I put all this stuff about Gail together, put all this stuff about … and the mothers together, whereas before it was all over the place because I wrote it in chronological order following my diaries and letters really. It concentrates more on Frank and my relationship with Frank and Gail, the three of us, and the constant, you know, it was a three -sided relationship even though my side of it was platonic, but still.

 

I mean, at one point she rang me up and said, I’m going to write a book about Frank’s groupies because Frank had asked her to do it. And she said, I want you to help me. I said, well, great book —and another book I might write. And she said, and I’m going to start with you, Pauline. Well, I nearly dropped the phone. I said, I haven’t had an affair with Frank. And she … she came to see me, we had coffee and we talked about it and she told me that Frank had suggested that and she’d taken it one step further herself and it was obviously her trying me on. But she never did write the book either. That never got written either.

 

Dave Bricker:

And where can our listeners learn more about you and your writing?

 

Pauline Butcher-Bird:Well, I have a website. And there’s quite a few interviews on YouTube. And I did actually some interesting interviews with Frank on YouTube. But I’ve also done my own interviews there on YouTube.

 

And the BBC Radio 4 did adapt the book into a play on Radio 4. That’s still available, I think, called “Frank Zappa and Me.” So if they want you to hear that, there’s an adaptation of it. They turned it into a bit of a love story, which was a bit of embarrassment because I was listening to it through my fingers because I had nothing to do with it. They did it without my involvement.

 

Dave Bricker:

And what is that website, Pauline?

 

Pauline Butcher-Bird:

PaulineButcher.com.

 

Dave Bricker:

So Pauline, I’m sure I could talk with you for hours. It’s a fascinating topic for both of us. Thank you so much for being my guest today.

 

Pauline Butcher-Bird:

All right. Well, it’s charming to have met you, Dave. Thank you very much for giving me your time.

 

Dave Bricker:

Likewise. I’m Dave Bricker, inviting you to explore the world’s most comprehensive resource for speakers and storytellers at speakipedia.com.

 

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