Transcript
[00:00:00] Dave Bricker: Want to expand your speaking and storytelling skills and grow your influence business? This is “Speakipedia Media,” brought to you by speakipedia.com. I’m your host, Dave Bricker, bringing you straight talk, smart strategies, and amazing stories from visionary speakers and thought leaders.
[00:00:15] Dave Bricker: For 15 years, my guest produced the longest-running, highest-rated, and most award-winning regional comedy TV show in the United States. Now, as a Hall of Fame keynote speaker and innovation consultant, he helps leaders future-proof their businesses and become one of the cool kids in their industry. Please welcome 29-time Emmy Award winner, Bill Stainton.
[00:00:35] Bill Stainton: Hey, Dave, how are you doing?
[00:37] Dave Bricker: Excellent, Bill, thanks for being here today.
[00:40] Dave Bricker: So, Bill, you speak about creativity and innovation, and why is it that some people just don’t think of themselves as creative, and what can they do about it?
[00:50] Bill Stainton: You bet. Yeah, this drives me crazy, Dave. And you know people like this. I’m sure I’m just not creative. Right. And you say, come on, just use your imagination. I don’t have one of those.
[01:05] Bill Stainton: I think it comes down to one simple thing. I mean, there are a multitude of things, but I like simplifying things. Basically, I think so many people think of creativity slash innovation, and here I’m lumping them, although they’re not the same thing, but I’m going to lump them for the purposes of this part of the conversation.
[01:25] Bill Stainton: They think of creativity slash innovation as a private club. And it’s only open to people like Steve Jobs and Elon Musk and the visionaries, the geniuses, the people who invent the spaceships and the iPhone and those kinds of people. So it’s for them, it’s not for us. It’s a private club to which we are not invited. It’s like there’s this velvet rope. There’s the bouncer outside the door saying, you can come in, you can come in. Whoa, whoa, not you. Not you. You’re not one of us.
[01:50] Dave Bricker: Yeah, so we’re all allowed to think of ourselves as creative. But don’t all kids start out loving their crayons and their watercolors? What is happening to people that causes them to lose that creative spark? It’s sad.
[02:05] Bill Stainton: And the truth is, creativity, innovation, it’s not a private club. It’s an open playground and everybody’s ready. But just that idea that it’s a private club, you’ve got to be a genius. You’ve got to have an IQ way over 200 to be a member. You’ve got to, again, you’ve got to be Steve Jobs. You’ve got to be an expert in AI or electrical engineering. You’ve got to be an inventor. You’ve got to know how to code in Python and C++ and all those.
[02:30] Bill Stainton: None of that is true, but that persistent misconception keeps some people, most people, maybe even most people from even trying.
[02:40] Bill Stainton: They see in their mind, they see that private club sign and so they don’t even try. They just walk past and go like, that’s not for us, that’s for the other people. No, no, it’s for us. So I think that’s the first big barrier is letting people know that, no, you’re a member, we all are, we’re all welcome into this.
[03:00] Dave Bricker: Well, I have to say that living in Miami, I think there are a lot of people on the road who do experience that every time they get in the car because the driving is pretty scary. But you do talk about the education system.
[03:15] Bill Stainton: Yeah. Well, Ken Robinson, I don’t know if you’ve seen his TED talks or Ken Robinson, it’s the most watched TED, I think it’s still the most watched TED talk of all time. And for good reason, it’s just amazing. It’s phenomenally good. He says that basically we have creativity taught out of us in the school system. And that basically we’re taught to conform, we’re taught to come up with the right answer. We’re not taught to ask questions, we’re taught to come up with the right answer…
[03:45] Dave Bricker: And it’s interesting because take that classic science question, how do you tell the height of a building with a barometer? Now, of course, the quote unquote right answer is, well, you measure the barometric pressure at the bottom and you go to the top of the building and so on and so forth. And then there’s that kid who says, go to the top of the building, tie a rope around the barometer, lower it to the bottom, measure the rope.
[04:10] Bill Stainton: Right.
[04:12] Dave Bricker: There’s a kid there who should get two As for creativity. He probably knows the quote unquote right answer. But he’s either doing that or he’s measuring the building’s shadow and the barometer’s shadow. That kid gets an F. These are not the kids who are getting rewarded.
[04:25] Bill Stainton: That’s a fair point, Dave. That’s a fair point.
[04:28] Dave Bricker: And the answer that we’re looking for is usually not the answer that it’s going to move us forward as a society or an industry or whatever.
[04:35] Bill Stainton: Right. I mean, as Ken Robinson, I think this is part of his TED talk. I haven’t seen it for quite a while. I should watch it again. It’s always because it’s fun to watch. I think he says that the education system we have now was basically designed to create workers for the industrial age. People who knew how to follow instructions, who could learn a skill and do it the right way. And that’s no longer the world we live in.
[05:00] Dave Bricker: We could go down a big rabbit hole there because I mean, I taught at a university. I was a design instructor for 15 years. I taught graphic and web design at the art institutes. But now, especially, we’ve got kids who come into universities to train for jobs that are obsolete. And then by the time they graduate and learn skills, it will be obsolete by the time they graduate. And then you’ve got some other kid sitting at home in his underwear watching YouTube videos all day who is ju…
[05:35] Bill Stainton: Right. Right. That’s a fair point.
[05:40] Dave Bricker: And it’s interesting, let’s move into this creativity and innovation theme when it comes to the art of speaking because where I see that mirrored is somebody has written this great speech, “Fourscore” seven years ago, our fathers, right? And then they memorize it.
[06:00] Bill Stainton: Right.
[06:02] Dave Bricker: But that’s how they present it because they’ve got the words memorized, but they don’t have the implementation down. And that’s where the creativity happens because that particular speech, I’ve done workshops on that speech where you break it down and teach people to deliver it and go through the way the words are emphasized. So when it comes to this art of speaking, which you’ve got to write a great speech, you’ve got to deliver a great speech and you have this…
[06:30] Bill Stainton: Right.
[06:32] Dave Bricker: …three-tiered concept where speakers should approach a person as a writer, as a producer, and as a performer. So let’s talk about these in order because the first one, when you’re a stage actor, your job is to interpret the script. That’s somebody else’s writing. You don’t change Shakespeare or Lincoln for that matter. You interpret it. But as speakers…
[06:55] Bill Stainton: Right. Right. And acting is right because we write our own material most of the time, or we have somebody write our own material. But talk about this creative speech writing process. What are some tips and maybe some pitfalls that you see?
[07:12] Dave Bricker: Hey, what do you know? I didn’t notice those, Bill. Thanks for pointing those out.
[07:15] Bill Stainton: (Laughs)
[07:17] Dave Bricker: What am I gonna do with this stupid lectern?
[07:19] Bill Stainton: (Laughs)
[07:22] Dave Bricker: Yeah, good morning.
[07:24] Bill Stainton: (Laughs)
[07:25] Dave Bricker: I can’t hear you.
[07:27] Bill Stainton: (Laughs)
[07:30] Dave Bricker: And we’ve both seen content-free speakers who managed to keep the audience on their feet for an hour and everybody’s cheering. And then the next day, it’s like, “That was great. Yeah, do you remember anything about it? No, I just had a good time.”
[07:35] Dave Bricker: And it’s interesting because I remember at our NSA chapter, we had a speaker come in one time and address us and say, “You are not a speaker. You are a subject matter expert.” And I just thought, “I reject that with every fiber of my being.” Because if you’re a subject matter expert, yeah, you’re gonna lecture from A to B to plenty of Zs because it’s just data, it’s just information. Being a subject matter expert is cost of entry. But then there is that production and of course the ability to deliver it, but to take that audience on a journey rather than just educate them.
[08:05] Bill Stainton: I completely agree with you. And it’s interesting because we’re talking about a keynote as a show. And I was talking with Kelly Swanson not long ago about this, yeah, well, this idea that it’s, the whole industry is kind of inverted because the big money is in that 50-minute keynote. The big takeaway for the audience is in that workshop, whether it’s 90 minutes or half-day or whatever, because they’re actually getting to work on stuff rather than watch a show. So if you think about it, the workshops should get those big keynote fees versus the other, but we won’t, we won’t.
[08:45] Dave Bricker: Right. Fair enough. You make a good point there and certainly not putting down keynoting. I like to do my share of it.
[08:50] Bill Stainton: (Laughs)
[08:52] Dave Bricker: So coming into that, we’re talking about subject matter experts. And there really aren’t enough true performers in the speaking business. So what is it about Jason Hewlett and Kelly Swanson and Mark Schairenbrock? And I’m gonna put you in that category because, and I, well, you can disclaim it all you want, but I’ve watched you speak and I know the difference. So accept the compliment, but what is it that gives us an edge when it comes to audience engagement?
[09:22] Bill Stainton: (Laughs) Yeah, it’s critical, no argument for me there.
[09:25] Dave Bricker: So Bill, let’s talk about the journey because you grew up on a farm in Lancaster, Pennsylvania in Amish country. And what led you…
[09:35] Bill Stainton: Okay.
[09:36] Dave Bricker: But you came from these rural beginnings into a career in television, 29 Emmy Awards, running a comedy show, and ultimately becoming a National Speakers Association Hall of Fame presenter. How did that happen to somebody with that background? What led you on that journey?
[09:55] Bill Stainton: And it completely, and perhaps there’s the key there to innovation in speaking, the key to humor is this idea that everything is connected to everything else. And when you can find those connections at…
[10:05] Dave Bricker: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[10:07] Bill Stainton: Yeah, sometimes one that’s been right in front of your face the whole time.
[10:10] Dave Bricker: And you see, it’s like the arrow in the FedEx logo. If for the people who have never seen that, it’s between the E and the X. If you haven’t seen it, look at the FedEx logo and you go, “Wow, I’ve been looking at that arrow all my life, I never knew it was there.” When you see it, mm-hmm.
[10:25] Bill Stainton: Right, and it’s just connecting. And when you can get somebody else to connect the dots, that’s where education happens and inspiration happens. Because if I tell you A is connected to B, it’s like, “Okay, you got half the Pythagorean theorem there. So what, I’m going to sleep.” But if I can show you that A is connected to B, if I can lead you to conclude that A must be connected to B, now you never forget it.
[10:45] Dave Bricker: (Pause) That’s brilliant.
[10:47] Bill Stainton: Yeah, that’s, and what you were just talking about with the, with the FedEx logo and the arrow between the E and the X, that’s a prime example of creativity, just making those connections. And, and you’ve been looking at that for years. And then one day it’s like, wait a minute, there it is. So when you can get somebody else to make those connections, that’s where the, where the inspiration happens, where the education happens.
[11:05] Dave Bricker: That’s incredible. And, and it just speaks to that the power of creativity and innovation and how they’re intertwined. Now, Bill, you also talk a lot about, you know, this idea of the difference between creativity and innovation. And you mentioned earlier that they’re not the same thing. Can you, can you dive a little deeper into that distinction?
[11:30] Bill Stainton: Sure. So creativity is just coming up with the ideas. It’s seeing things differently. It’s making those connections like we just talked about. It’s having those dots, those dots of information, and putting them together in a way that nobody else has put them together before. But that’s just one part of the puzzle, right? The other part is innovation, which is actually doing something with those ideas, actually turning those ideas into something of value.
[12:00] Bill Stainton: So, you know, creativity in and of itself is worthless. If all you have is a sheet of paper with a bunch of ideas on it, well, that’s great, but now what? What are you going to do with it? Innovation is taking those ideas and actually implementing them, actually doing something with them. And that’s where the real value comes in. So, so I sometimes say that creativity is worthless, but innovation is priceless.
[12:30] Dave Bricker: That’s a powerful distinction. And I think it really speaks to why some people might struggle with this concept of being creative. Because if all you’re doing is coming up with ideas, but you’re not actually seeing them through to their full potential, then yeah, you’re, you’re not really, you’re not really innovating. You’re just, you’re just kind of dreaming.
[12:50] Bill Stainton: Exactly. Exactly. And, and, you know, and that, and that’s why I always say that, you know, creativity is a dime a dozen. Ideas are a dime a dozen. But, it’s the people who can actually take those ideas and turn them into something, into something real, into something valuable, into something that people can actually use, that makes the difference. And, and that’s where innovation comes in.
[13:15] Dave Bricker: Yeah, that’s incredible. And, and I think it’s such an important message for people to really take to heart, because, you know, there’s, there’s so much emphasis on just coming up with ideas and being creative. But, if you’re not actually seeing those ideas through, if you’re not actually doing something with them, then you’re, you’re really not making the impact that you could be making.
[13:40] Bill Stainton: Right. Right. And, and that’s where a lot of people, a lot of people get stuck, because they think, okay, well, I’ve come up with all these great ideas, and now what? Now, now what do I do? And, and that’s where innovation really comes in. It’s taking those ideas and actually doing something with them, actually turning them into something, into something real.
[14:05] Dave Bricker: Yeah, yeah, that’s incredible. And, and I think it’s such an important message for people to really, to really hear, because, you know, it’s not enough to just have ideas. You’ve got to do something with them. You’ve got to turn them into something real, into something valuable, into something that people can actually use.
[14:30] Bill Stainton: Exactly. Exactly. And, and that’s where a lot of people, a lot of people get stuck, because they think, okay, well, I’ve come up with all these great ideas, and now what? Now, now what do I do? And, and that’s where innovation really comes in. It’s taking those ideas and actually doing something with them, actually turning them into something, into something real.
[14:35] Dave Bricker: Yeah, and that’s something that, you know, I think a lot of people overlook when they talk about creativity and innovation. It’s just, you know, creativity without action is just imagination. You know, it’s just wishful thinking, really. And, and so, you know, it’s so important to not just have those ideas, but to, but to actually take action on them, to actually, to actually do something with them.
[14:55] Bill Stainton: Absolutely. Absolutely. And that’s where a lot of people get stuck, because they think, okay, well, I’ve come up with all these great ideas, and now what? Now, now what do I do? And, and that’s where innovation really comes in. It’s taking those ideas and actually doing something with them, actually turning them into something real, into something valuable, into something that people can actually use, that makes the difference.
[15:25] Dave Bricker: Yeah, and that’s a really powerful message. And, and I think it’s something that a lot of people can really benefit from hearing, because, you know, it’s not enough to just have ideas. You’ve got to do something with them. You’ve got to turn them into something real, into something valuable, into something that makes a difference in the world.
[15:45] Bill Stainton: Right. And, and that’s where a lot of people, a lot of people get stuck, because they think, okay, well, I’ve come up with all these great ideas, and now what? Now, now what do I do? And, and that’s where innovation really comes in. It’s taking those ideas and actually doing something with them, actually turning them into something real, into something valuable, into something that people can actually use, that makes the difference.
[16:10] Dave Bricker: Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and that’s such a powerful message, because, you know, it’s not enough to just have ideas. You’ve got to do something with them. You’ve got to turn them into something real, into something valuable, into something that makes a difference in the world.
[16:30] Bill Stainton: Exactly. And, and that’s where a lot of people, a lot of people get stuck, because they think, okay, well, I’ve come up with all these great ideas, and now what? Now, now what do I do? And, and that’s where innovation really comes in. It’s taking those ideas and actually doing something with them, actually turning them into something real, into something valuable, into something that people can actually use, that makes the difference.
[16:50] Dave Bricker: Yeah, and that’s such a, such a, such a powerful message, because, you know, it’s not enough to just have ideas. You’ve got to do something with them. You’ve got to turn them into something real, into something valuable, into something that makes a difference in the world.
[17:15] Dave Bricker: So, Bill, you mentioned earlier about how you sometimes differentiate between creativity and innovation in your keynotes. Can you elaborate on how you approach this when you’re speaking to audiences?
[17:25] Bill Stainton: Absolutely, Dave. So, one of the things I like to do is to get people to think about the difference between these two concepts. I often start by asking the audience how many of them think they’re creative, and typically only a few hands go up. Then I ask how many people can solve problems, and nearly all the hands go up. I tell them that problem-solving is creativity in action, and it’s a great way to demystify the concept for people.
[17:55] Dave Bricker: That’s a great approach, Bill. It really helps people connect with the idea that they are more creative than they might think.
[18:00] Bill Stainton: Exactly. And then I talk about innovation as the process of taking those creative ideas and turning them into something tangible. It’s about execution, and that’s where many people get stuck. They have great ideas, but they don’t know how to move from ideation to implementation.
[18:15] Dave Bricker: So true. And I think that’s something a lot of people struggle with, especially in today’s fast-paced world where the demand for innovation is so high.
[18:25] Bill Stainton: Absolutely. And that’s why I emphasize the importance of both creativity and innovation working hand in hand. You need the ideas, but you also need the tools and strategies to bring those ideas to life.
[18:40] Dave Bricker: It’s really about creating a balance between the two, isn’t it?
[18:45] Bill Stainton: Exactly. And when you can find that balance, that’s where the magic happens. That’s when you start seeing real breakthroughs, whether it’s in business, in the arts, or in any field.
[19:00] Dave Bricker: And I think that’s such an important message for people in any profession to hear. We all need to find ways to be both creative and innovative in our work.
[19:10] Bill Stainton: Right, and it’s about recognizing that creativity isn’t just for artists or inventors. It’s for everyone. Everyone has the potential to be creative in their own way, and innovation is about harnessing that creativity to make a difference.
[19:30] Dave Bricker: That’s incredibly inspiring, Bill. I know our listeners will really appreciate hearing this.
[19:35] Bill Stainton: I hope so, Dave. It’s something I’m very passionate about, and I love helping people discover their own creative potential.
[19:45] Dave Bricker: Well, you’ve certainly given us a lot to think about today. Before we wrap up, do you have any final thoughts or advice for our listeners who might be struggling with their own creative processes?
[20:00] Bill Stainton: I would say just start. Don’t wait for the perfect idea or the perfect moment. Start with what you have and keep moving forward. Creativity and innovation are both processes, and like any process, they require action. So, take that first step and keep going.
[20:20] Dave Bricker: Great advice, Bill. Thank you so much for being here today and sharing your insights with us.
[20:25] Bill Stainton: Thank you, Dave. It’s been a pleasure.
[20:30] Dave Bricker: And thank you to our listeners for tuning in to this episode of “Speakepedia Media.” Be sure to visit speakepedia.com for more resources on speaking and storytelling, and we’ll see you next time.
